The Many Faces of Verdi

This was an interesting exchange:

 by Verdi Today at 15:32

@Phoebe wrote:@Verdi. You have been asked time and again to provide one scintilla of actual EVIDENCE which would corroborate your claim that the Smiths lied about their sighting and became involved solely to assist in the cover-up of what happened to Madeleine McCann. You have not done so. You accuse those, who do not agree with your view that the Smiths were involved, of proffering nothing but opinions and speculation, while doing just that yourself!

Good points. And the reply? 

I have provided documented information from the PJ files - repeatedly. I have nothing more to offer.

You never had anything to offer 

All this toing and throing isn't leading anywhere, it's just an unnecessary distraction. I've frankly got better things to do with my time.

Or in other words, I am going down quicker than Stormy Daniels in the Oval Office and I need to get out of here pronto 

NB: Can I ask that you use the quote function when repeating what members have previously said, I find it extremely difficult to understand who's saying what and to whom. It's quite simple, if you need any guidance just ask. Thanks!

Just like you do, you mean? Except that you don't, of course, as I pointed out the other day

Run, Verdi. Run for the hills....... 

Stupid is as stupid does

Brace yourselves for this one, guys:

Excerpt from Martin Smith's witness statement - 26th May 2007

— Regarding the description of the individual who carried the child he states that: he was Caucasian, around 175 to 180m in height. He appeared to be about 35/40 years old. He had an average build, a bit on the thin side. His hair was short, in a basic male cut, brown in colour. He cannot state if it was dark or lighter in tone. He did not wear glasses and had no beard or moustache. He did not notice any other relevant details partly due to the fact that the lighting was not very good.

— He was wearing cream or beige-coloured cloth trousers in a classic cut. He did not see his shoes. He did not notice the body clothing and cannot describe the colour or fashion of the same.

— States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph. 

And your point is? 

So that description of the stranger Martin Smith and his family allegedly witnessed on the night of 3rd May 2007, morphs into this ..

Morphs? The image is entirely consistent with the descriptions they gave. Generally speaking a facial efit image does not include things like legs. Or shoes.
The desperation is coming off Verdi in palpable waves. 

Enlarge this image

Spare parts

Verdi swooned as her hero Tony strode into the room, flinging off his mac to reveal his Brexit tank top

Morning all

First, a question - how big a pain in the arse is Verdi, Baldylocks' permanent tagalong?

"Huge" I hear you cry

Let's take a peep at her                                             latest

the Smithman efits (MARCH 2018)

 by Verdi Today at 1:25

@Phoebe #36

1.  You actually said that the PJ were passing the buck, when they decided not the persue the return of Martin Smith to Portugal.  You have also said there was no request/requirement for the Irish police to become involved which clearly contradicts your passing the buck comment.  If the PJ requested the Irish police, by rogatory,  to re-interview Martin Smith and/or any of his family then they were involved weren't they?

No more involved than any other force, tasked with taking a statement 

The police don't get to pick and choose who or what they investigate, inter-police national and international protocol dictates - in short, they have no choice but to cooperate if requested.  If by example, the police at Witney Bay are investigating a crime and needs to interview a witness residing at Wookey Hole, they wouldn't send one of their own officers down to Somerset, they would arrange for a local force to contact and interview the witness - hence my comment about Martin Smith being dealt with locally.

And? We all know this, so why have you got your knickers in a wad? 

2.  There was nothing for the PJ to thoroughly investigate, Martin Smith said he saw television footage of Gerry McCann on his return to the UK, and recognized him with 60-80% certainty purely by the way he was carrying his child - probably the most common way of carrying a child of that age group.  How can you elaborate on that?  Martin Smith and his son and daughter had already returned to Portugal in May 2007 at the expense of the Portuguese, to give their original statements, three weeks after Madeleine's alleged disappearance, how could they possibly justify another visit by Martin Smith to re-affirm such flimsy evidence?  The most sensible/logical/economical mode of operation was to refer the new evidence to Martin Smith's home ground and/or the police in England assigned to coordinate the case from their end - that is precisely what they did do.

So what is your point? And it was hardly 'flimsy' evidence, two individuals who were able to put a tentative identification on the man they saw 

The Irish police have a responsibility to respond to a request for assistance by another national/international force, they do have a role to play - they must cooperate, they're in no position to refuse.

Are you specialising in the bleeding obvious? 

3.  The opinion of an officer of the Irish police as regards the integrity of a witness has no bearing - it is but an off the cuff opinion, not an official declaration.

It is an opinion offered by an officer of the law who knew him and was able to speak with regards to his standing in the local community. I'd like to see you or the Hooded CombOver find one to speak up for you 

4.  If the PJ and/or their counterparts in Ireland thought there was any reason to pursue Martin Smith's revelation moment, they would have done so.  As they didn't I think it can be safely concluded that they didn't think it worthwhile.

As you are clearly not privy to their thought processes, I think it can be safely concluded that you haven't a fucking clue what you are on about 

5.  If the PJ, the Irish police and the English police thought Martin Smith's 60-80% assurance it was Gerry McCann he and his family saw on the night of 3rd May 2007, thought it not worthy of  further attention, there was no requirement for Martin Smith to do anything.  If the police required further detail they would have contacted him as they didn't it becomes clear they had no reason so to do.

Another startling, razor-sharp deduction from the crabby cow in the corner 

Look at it from another angle. Martin Smith said he was 60-80% sure the stranger in the night of 3rd May 2007 was Gerry McCann - why the heck would the official police need to draw-up an artist impression or e-fit of a living person identified by the witness, if they took it seriously?

That is not how it works, dumbo.
The witnesses couldn't make a 100% positive ID. Absolutely the correct course of action was to ask them to help to compile a new image. The process itself can help to jog the memory of witnesses

Why not just haul Gerry McCann in for questioning, rather than leaving it a few years before issuing before the world for identification purposes?

Who? Who would you suggest called him in? Because the PJ already tried that and the UK plods had no jurisdiction 

The McCanns private detectives however, were anxious for Martin Smith to collaborate with their bogus investigation and Martin Smith willingly complied. 

Really? Well, I hope you have evidence to support that bold claim, sonny Jim! Have you spoken to the detectives to assess their level of anxiety?

Or Mr Smith, to determine his level of compliance? No, I didn't think so

So now what didn't happen has been cleared up, we now have what did happen.  In brief, Martin Smith was contacted by the McCanns private detectives, as early as January 2008 by way of Metodo3 and later by Oakley International through the auspices of the McCanns wealthy financial backer, the double glazing magnate Brian Kennedy.  Martin Smith worked with the latter to produce two e-fits which were apparently shared with Leicester police, the PJ and more recently Operation Grange - so we are led to believe.

No - he co-operated with them. He did not 'work with them'. 

 The two e-fits were the focal point of the Crimewatch 2013 Madeleine McCann Special, where ex-DCI Andy Redwood promoted them as persons of interest to the investigation.

So?

If you think the Portuguese and Operation Grange are running scared because one of the e-fits is said to resemble Gerry McCann - think again!

What the fuck are you on about?

 If one or both e-fits looked remotely like Gerry McCann, the McCanns private detectives would most assuredly have had nothing to do with the production nor the promotion afterwards.  

Oh give over. Of course one looks like him. Doesn't mean it is him, but empirically it resembles him and to claim otherwise is just being a dick

Remember, the private detectives hired by the McCanns all turned out to be a bunch of criminals - I'm in no doubt this was known thoroughly when they were hired, indeed that would be the very reason they were hired.

Probably not wise to tar them all with the same brush - I'm sure they earn a lot more than you do

As I said previously, has it never occurred to you that Martin Smith and his family's alleged sighting was nothing but another reinforcement of the abduction theory?  

No, why should it?  Has it ever occurred to you that Baldylocks knows a credulous gobshite when he sees one?

Just what the McCanns needed back in May 2007 and just what ex-DCI Andy Redwood needed for the Crimewatch 2013 production!!!

Tin hats at the ready, people!

Cunning eh?  There is nothing clever about this extensive operation, just cunning pure and simple.

Cunning my arse. Why don't you put your cards on the big round table and say what you reckon they were doing, eh?  

Easter Bennetts part 3

Evening all

Yes, he's back again.

I think what we'll do this time, as well as commenting on his nonsense, is highlight all the barefaced lies in his post.

 by Tony Bennett Today at 23:23

Two days ago I posed this question:

On 20 September 2007, Martin Smith made this solemn statement to an Irish police officer: "I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard [Gerald] McCann that I met that night carrying a child".

Let's drop the word ''solemn'' that you keep adding in, shall we? It was a statement

@ Phoebe, can you give me one really good, convincing, wholly persuasive argument as to why, barely three months later, Martin Smith was working for the McCann Team, talking to their investigation co-ordinator, Brian Kennedy, talking to Metodo 3 who were working for them, talking to Oakley International, Kevin Halligen and Henri Exton who were all also employed by the McCanns?

Agreeing to speak to their investigators is not ''Working for them" as you well know

-------------------

I have seen several long replies by @ Phoebe, but not one that comes remotely near to answering the question.

Because the question is based on a false premise

Instead @ Phoebe asserts that Martin Smith is an 'ordinary man'.

An ordinary man living in Praia da Luz on the very night that Madeleine McCann is reported missing, who claim he sees, together with eight other members of his extended family, a lone man at 10pm at night carrying a young blonde girl clad only in pyjamas, does not - amid a 24/7 medias blitz over the next two weeks, fail to report his sighting to the police.

Oh really? Why - because you say so?

An ordinary man does not wait to be reminded by his son 13 days later, who thinks he might have been dreaming about this sighting.

Why - because you say so?

An ordinary man who has in effect completely forgotten about this sighting does not jump into action the moment someone he knows well has been made a formal suspect, and suddenly say with crystal clarity: "It definitely wasn't him".

Don't be ridiculous. He knows he saw a man. Equally, he knows that the man he saw wasn't Robert Murat.

And he did not ''Know him well"

An ordinary man, over four months after a sighting which he admits was only for few seconds, in the dark and with weak street lighting, and who says he would never recognise him again if he saw him, does not claim to be sure it was Gerry McCann based solely on 'the way he was carrying his son'. 

Why - because you say so?

And what he actually said was "He says that it would not possible to recognise the individual in person or from a photograph." You have inserted the word 'never' to try to beef it up. So, another lie, I'm afraid.

An ordinary man, who has told police he is up to 80% sure that Gerry McCann was the abductor, does not then go and work for the McCann Team barely three months later.  

No, what he said was " I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child" 
He did not use the word 'abductor'. You added that in

More lies, I'm afraid

   

@ lemonbutter speaks of 'the integrity of Martin Smith's testimony'. What integrity? His statements and actions are all over the place - see the 'SMITHMAN' threads.

No - that is your opinion and is actually a lie too - his statements are measured, consistent and reinforced by similar testimony from other family members. Oh - and using your own lies as a proof source? Come on now.

@ polyenne is unhappy with the word 'collusion'. OK, let us use another word: 'coilaboration'. I have demonstrated that Martin Smith has a 10-year track record of collaborating with the McCann Team, Operation Grange, and even the BBC. He and his wife have publicly supported the abduction theory and expressed public sympathy for the McCanns.

You have done no such thing. You have not shown any collaboration , a word which suggests that he stands to benefit. Operation Grange did not exist 10 years ago, and as a witness he has co-operated with them as any witness would. He has not supported the abduction theory or expressed public sympathy - unverified quotes from tabloid newspapers are not proof of anything

@ jazega asks if @ aquila has '100-% proof that 'Smithman is bogus'.

I therefore invite any or all of the above to explain, once again, in plain and simple language:        
  
Can you give me one really good, convincing, wholly persuasive argument as to why, barely three months  after declaring that Smithman was Gerry McCann, Martin Smith was working for the McCann Team, talking to their investigation co-ordinator, Brian Kennedy, talking to Metodo 3 who were working for them, talking to Oakley International, Kevin Halligen and Henri Exton who were all also employed by the McCanns - and drew up the efits now used by Operation Grange and the BBC to sustain the abduction theory?

He did not declare that the man was Gerry, he gave an estimate to indicate his level of certainty
He was not working for the McCann team, that is a lie. Nor were those groups in the employ of the McCanns. He did not collude, or collaborate. He co-operated in helping to compile an image. That's all. Neither did he have any say over how Operation Grange chose to deploy them. And the BBC just make the programme
So another pack of lies, I'm afraid.

Verdi-ing on the ridiculous

Verdi took the opportunity for a quick fag break between posts 

You know, sometimes there are moments of such purity that you just want to preserve them for ever.

This is one such

The truly repulsive Verdi was on twatwaffle duty, charged with being a dick to anyone not agreeing with Baldy.

She duly set about chief doubter Phoebe.

I should mention here that Verdi mimics Bennett in ignoring the inbuilt 'quote' function, and instead invades the last speech box with blue type, so in the following example, Phoebe's post is in black, Verdi's contribution is in blue. This will become both relevant and amusing as we go on

@Phoebe wrote:After G.A. was removed from the case the Portuguese police decided to avoid getting further involved with the Smiths over their claim that the man they had seen that night was Gerry. The P.J. cancelled preparations for the Smiths to return in order to make an official identification on Portuguese soil, instead passing the buck to the Irish Gardai.

I wonder at the rationale behind Gonçalo Amaral's thinking on this point, as I've said in the past, I can see nothing to be gained by Martin Smith returning to Portugal just to tell them again that he was 60-80% sure it was Gerry McCann he saw on the night of 3rd May 2007.  A reenactment would have been useless, the location was not the point in question, it was the identity of the stranger fleetingly seen in partial lighting and later in September, said to be recognized only by the way McCann was carrying his child.   Smith's return to Portugal at that stage would have been a total waste of time and money.

No shit, Sherlock 

In fairness to Dr Amaral, he was in ignorance of a lot of what was going on behind the scenes back in the UK.

Passing the buck to the Irish police - what an extraordinary notion.  Do you have any evidence to verify your statement?

Pompous twat. The task of taking a second statement was, in fact, passed to the Gardai, as is normal procedure. The fact that the Gardai took the statement IS the evidence, you clown. 

 IMO, it is obvious that the P.J. were put under political pressure to drop the Smith angle. Why would this be the case if the Smiths were  actually allies of team McCann and their Gov. supporters.

As it's only an opinion your question remains unanswerable.

It's YOUR supposed opinion, you repulsive arsekisser. 

 The British police, having returned to the U.K., were no longer  involved in actively investigating Madeleine's disappearance. 
What other opportunity remained then, for the Smiths to get the description of the man they had seen included in ANY investigation about this child's disappearance. 

The British police were not actively nor inactively investigating Madeleine's disappearance, they have no jurisdiction to investigate Madeleine's disappearance - not then not now.

That isn't strictly true. Under the Offences Against the Person act, if the murder or manslaughter of a British citizen is suspected, or a British citizen is suspected to be the culprit, it can fall to the UK authorities to investigate and prosecute 

 Representatives from Leicestershire Constabulary were seconded to Portugal to support the PJ investigation (it remains a mystery as to exactly why) and also to act as a liaison between Portugal and the UK.  Leicestershire Constabulary continued in this role until the Metropolitan Police, Operation Grange, were assigned to 'review' the case back in May 2011.

The Smiths had every opportunity to convey the description of the man they saw to an official police force.  No excuses there!

The Smiths did precisely that, you boiled clown. How the fuck do you think the police found out - psychic powers? You seem spectacularly ignorant - Mr Smith immediately made contact with the Leicestershire police and this is all documented in the case files. So he in fact did PRECISELY what you have accused him of failing to do, you stupid cow. 

The P.J. no longer sought it, the U.K. police weren't involved and certainly did not issue an invitation to the Smiths to come to the U.K. to help draw up any such e-fit. although they were fully aware of the Smith sighting.

There is no requirement for the Smiths to travel to the UK to participate in drawing up an e-fit or any other mode.  Such things can be done locally, it's not passing the buck, it's routine policing.

Phoebe did not suggest there was, you rancid tart. 

The only avenue available to the Smiths was to cooperate with those who DID ask them to help create an e-fit of the suspect. In the absence of any other option, they understandably took this one chance.

Sorry but that is just hypothetical nonsense.

No it isn't. Nobody else asked them to do so, did they? 

 Just think what would have happened if the Smiths had refused.

What would have happened?  One minute you say Smith had no alternative but to consult the McCanns private detectives and in the next breath you imply some sort of threatening behaviour.  You can't have it both ways.

She did NOT say anything about 'consulting' them, nor did she suggest any type of threat 

 In all likelihood Smithman would have faded into obscurity and we, the public, would never have seen the e-fits of the man they helped to depict - e-fits which bear such a resemblance to Gerry that it caused much sarcastic reaction and comment when Gerry was pictured in a  T.V. studio, seated beneath the image of a suspect which looked uncannily like himself!

Smithman has faded into obscurity - despite ex-DCI Andy Redwood making it the focal point of the Crimewatch 2013 Madeleine McCann Special, in collaboration with the BBC.  Had Martin Smith, or a member of his family, followed the right course by collaborating with an official police force in the first place, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  

Verdi talking complete bollocks. Martin Smith contacted the Leicestershire police after seeing the footage of Gerry getting off the plane and was subsequently spoken to by the PJ. All of this information is in the published files, so Verdi is either a total fucking liar or a halfwit. The smart money is on both.

The Smiths had every opportunity to work with the Irish police and the UK police, in the guise of Leicestershire Constabulary and the Metropolitan Police - he declined to avail himself of the opportunities.  As the old saying goes - actions speak louder than words.

Complete and utter falsehood. Smith contacted the right people and this is nothing less than an utterly contrived attack on the poster, presumably in an effort to win brownie points from Baldylocks.

Anyhoo, Phoebe responded. I should say that Phoebe reverted to using that crafty device - correct punctuation - to make it clear when she was quoting Verdi. However, to keep the format the same as in the above, I will show Phoebe's words in black and Verdi's in blue

@ Verdi 


"Passing the buck to the Irish police - what an extraordinary notion.  Do you have any evidence to verify your statement?"

Er yes, she does. I don't really need to add anything here, Phoebe deals with the scrote

From " The Truth Of The Lie" -


"After my departure the P.J. were to change their minds. They asked the Irish police to proceed with interviewing the witness. That decision was to seriously delay the process since the Smiths were not interviewed until several months later"


 As to my opinion that the P.J. avoided further contact with the Smiths because of political pressure -


"This case has involved too much politics and too little police" - Goncalo  Amaral  in interview with "Daggbladet Pluss."


"The Smiths had every opportunity to convey the description of the man they saw to an official police force.  No excuses there!"......."The Smiths had every opportunity to work with the Irish police..."


Please indicate where you found the evidence that the Irish Garda Siochana offered to in any way involve itself directly in the investigation into the disappearance of a British subject in Portugal.


"There is no requirement for the Smiths to travel to the UK to participate in drawing up an e-fit or any other mode.  Such things can be done locally, it's not passing the buck, it's routine policing" 


Where is the evidence that the Garda Siochana were prepared to assist the Smiths in creating e-fits of the man they had seen in Portugal on May 3rd '07.  Or perhaps you are suggesting that the Smiths would  sit at home in their kitchen and draw up an e-fit at a remove using some form of video conference between Drogheda  and, er, where exactly.
 Which U.K force would they try to link up to. None had shown any interest in contacting the Smiths let alone in interviewing them or getting e-fits from them! Can you imagine what the reaction would be now among Smith-cynics if they had agreed to draw up e-fits without being physically present for the process!


 "Just think what would have happened if the Smiths had refused..
.you imply some sort of threatening behaviour."

I certainly do not, in any way, imply that the Smiths were threatened by those requesting their cooperation with e-fits! What I am alluding to is how those determined to paint the Smiths as being part of the cover-up would have reacted to any refusal on their part to give further details about what they witnessed that night.


 As for Smithman having faded into obscurity - Thanks to the Smiths and those e-fits he has not. In fact very many people who follow this case still continue to regard the Smiths' evidence as one of the most important  pieces of evidence.

So having dealt with her nonsense, Phoebe has thrown the ball back into Verdi's court. How does the vile little prig deal with it? 

@Phoebe #31

You've made it impossible for me to respond to this. 

Your formatting is totally confused, plus as far as I can make out, you've plucked out odd wording here and there, taking everything out of context.

Or, to represent the above visually:

Easter Bennetts, part deux

Bennett wasn't used to the peasants revolting

Right - where were we?

Oh yes.

Phoebe returned, armed with a stout verbal cricket bat, with which she proceeded to offer her compliments to the cadaverous visage of Mr Bennett.

When he regained consciousness, he bit back:

I wrote: "Then in December 2007, he caused further confusion by 'switching sides' as it were, and agreeing to work for Metodo 3, Brian Kennedy, Kevin Halligen, Henri Exton and the McCanns". 

@ Phoebe replied: "There is absolutely no evidence of Smith 'changing sides'...Had Martin Smith refused to cooperate ...he would have found himself in a very awkward position..."

Oh get on with it, Deathly Hallows 

REPLY:  On 20 September 2007, Martin Smith made this solemn statement to an Irish police officer: "I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard [Gerald] McCann that I met that night carrying a child".

Solemn statement? Grow the fuck up, man. He made a statement. A sworn statement. Stop playing to your gallery of simpletons 

Phoebe, can you give me one really good, convincing, wholly persuasive argument as to why, barely three months later, Martin Smith was working for the McCann Team, talking to their investigation co-ordinator, Brian Kennedy, talking to Metodo 3 who were working for them, talking to Oakley International, Kevin Halligen and Henri Exton who were all also employed by the McCanns?

He was not ''working for them" 
As you well know, being a struck off trainee solicitor, it is quite normal for either side in a potential civil or criminal action to gather witness testimony

What was his reason?

Probably just being helpful, something completely foreign to you 

Was he frightened of them?

Shouldn't think so 

Did they have something on him?

Such as? 

Or had he originally been working for the Murat camp and against the McCanns?

Oh give over with the libelous bollocks, you gigantic arse wart. 

Then when Brian Kennedy and Edward Smethurst had their famous summit meeting at the Eveleighs in Portugal on 13 November 2007, and 'talked turkey' with the Murat camp, did the two sides then kiss and make up? And then did they ask Martin Smith to sow further confusion?

So are you answering the question, Baldylocks, or merely posing a load of unanswerable hypothetical bollocks? 

It's a possibility already raised on the forum by 'Rogue-a-Tory' and 'Copodenieve'  

Probably your sock accounts, in that case. Having other fuckwits on board is not a matter for pride.

At this point, Phoebe returned and set about him again, so he skulked off to bed, leaving matters in the less than capable hands of Verdi, the forum Cuntosaurus, who was about as much use as a one-legged man at an arse-kicking party, and hilariously posed the following question of Phoebe:

Your above comments about Martin Smith's assumed actions are very assured, can you provide evidence to back-up your convictions?

Which Phoebe later dealt with as follows:

 I could repeat that exact sentence re those who say the Smiths are complicit in the cover-up!!

Touché, indeed!

In the meantime there was a couple of sensible contributions from 'Polyenne' and 'lemonbutter' who both took Bennett to task, which is good to see in a forum which is generally only stocked with unflushable turds

In an amusing intervention, Mrs JH herself popped up to resurrect some old piece of Bennett stalking crap from 2014, apropos of absolutely nothing, before they all departed for oranges or whatever they consume at half-time.

What I find interesting is that Baldylocks has received very little support on this occasion, other than his usual spares, the unholy triumvirate of Jill Havern, Aquilla and the repulsive Verdi.

Pretty much everyone else has taken chunks out of him. No doubt they will shortly be joining the pile of members discarded for ''disrupting the forum''

Watch this space.....